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	<title>Comments on: If you can&#8217;t prove God doesn&#8217;t exist, why not believe?</title>
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	<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/07/07/if-you-cant-prove-god-doesnt-exist-why-not-believe/</link>
	<description>Skepticism. Critical thinking. Podcast. Community.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David Annis</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/07/07/if-you-cant-prove-god-doesnt-exist-why-not-believe/#comment-482</link>
		<dc:creator>David Annis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do not disagree with HP that belief should be tolerated.  In while raising my kids as atheists, I send them to religious schools and have no problem with them when they want to believe in God.  Nonetheless, like the dragons that they also sometimes choose to believe in, it is an idea that when examined logically makes no sense and I hope that by the time they are adults they do not believe in either.

Jayna, thanks for the compliment. Like you I do have a problem with religion when it starts to cause harm to others.  I believe that in our society it has caused harm, restraining the teaching of evolution, restricting scientific research, justifying mistreatment of those that do not believe in the dominant religion, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not disagree with HP that belief should be tolerated.  In while raising my kids as atheists, I send them to religious schools and have no problem with them when they want to believe in God.  Nonetheless, like the dragons that they also sometimes choose to believe in, it is an idea that when examined logically makes no sense and I hope that by the time they are adults they do not believe in either.</p>
<p>Jayna, thanks for the compliment. Like you I do have a problem with religion when it starts to cause harm to others.  I believe that in our society it has caused harm, restraining the teaching of evolution, restricting scientific research, justifying mistreatment of those that do not believe in the dominant religion, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jayna</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/07/07/if-you-cant-prove-god-doesnt-exist-why-not-believe/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I totally agree with HP. Unless there is a possibility of harm to other we should all have the freedom of choice what to believe in. Religion, fact or not, can inspire great moments of love and empathy. But also being a person who thoroughly enjoys having one foot in the world of science and the other in the world of the mystical.... I feel empowered by this authors reasoning and find it sheer genius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with HP. Unless there is a possibility of harm to other we should all have the freedom of choice what to believe in. Religion, fact or not, can inspire great moments of love and empathy. But also being a person who thoroughly enjoys having one foot in the world of science and the other in the world of the mystical&#8230;. I feel empowered by this authors reasoning and find it sheer genius.</p>
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		<title>By: HP</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/07/07/if-you-cant-prove-god-doesnt-exist-why-not-believe/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>HP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=97#comment-432</guid>
		<description>I believe the idea of mutual respect should be preached then the annihilation of either ideology.  I find atheists can be as hostile as the evangelical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the idea of mutual respect should be preached then the annihilation of either ideology.  I find atheists can be as hostile as the evangelical.</p>
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		<title>By: Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/07/07/if-you-cant-prove-god-doesnt-exist-why-not-believe/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I've put together a logical proof for the non-existence of god that I think is pretty good, so I'm sharing it around:

To prove or disprove the existence of something, you must first define what that something is. "God" is not simply an intelligent creator of the universe, "God" is purported by Christians (at least) to be so much more. 


Proof that "God", by Christian definition, does not exist.
-------------------------------------------------
Premise 1) "God" desires salvation for Mankind.
Premise 2) "God" wishes to send a directive message crucial to the salvation of Mankind.
Premise 3) "God" is capable of sending counterfeit-proof messages to Mankind.
Premise 4) A precondition for salvation is that Mankind receive and understand "God's" directive message.
Premise 5) There are many messages in the world that falsely purport to be of "God".

From P 4 and 5: The salvation of Mankind depends on our ability to differentiate between genuine messages of "God" and phony messages. 

To do this in a world full of false messages (P5), it's necessary for "God" to send a message uniquely attributable to "God" (i.e a message in a form immune to human counterfeit).

The fact that Mankind has not received a coherent directive message uniquely attributable to a non-human source, much less uniquely attributable to "God" is positive evidence that "God", by definition (P1-4), does not exist.

---------

&lt;b&gt;The only first message and commandment that we could logically expect a competent and non-mischeivous god to make is: "I will never send a messenger, only believe and follow what I tell you directly".&lt;/b&gt;

In a world full of false prophets who with words and writings claim falsely to speak for "God", the idea that "God" exists, is capable, but chooses to send commandments through human intermediaries (holy books and prophets) anyway, makes about as much sense as the idea of a treasury department which can print counterfeit-proof money, but chooses to print money that is susceptible to counterfeit anyway; even worse, a treasury that continues to print copies of bills known to have already been counterfeit! If a treasury had the means, we would expect it to exclusively print counterfeit-proof money. To do otherwise would be mischievous and/or stupid.

Essential to the preservation of authority, is the principle that subjects of authority MUST reject commandments not provided in certified form, and as such, a lack of obvious and irrefutable evidence that a directive originates from "God" is actually proof positive evidence that the directive could not possibly originate from "God".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve put together a logical proof for the non-existence of god that I think is pretty good, so I&#8217;m sharing it around:</p>
<p>To prove or disprove the existence of something, you must first define what that something is. &#8220;God&#8221; is not simply an intelligent creator of the universe, &#8220;God&#8221; is purported by Christians (at least) to be so much more. </p>
<p>Proof that &#8220;God&#8221;, by Christian definition, does not exist.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Premise 1) &#8220;God&#8221; desires salvation for Mankind.<br />
Premise 2) &#8220;God&#8221; wishes to send a directive message crucial to the salvation of Mankind.<br />
Premise 3) &#8220;God&#8221; is capable of sending counterfeit-proof messages to Mankind.<br />
Premise 4) A precondition for salvation is that Mankind receive and understand &#8220;God&#8217;s&#8221; directive message.<br />
Premise 5) There are many messages in the world that falsely purport to be of &#8220;God&#8221;.</p>
<p>From P 4 and 5: The salvation of Mankind depends on our ability to differentiate between genuine messages of &#8220;God&#8221; and phony messages. </p>
<p>To do this in a world full of false messages (P5), it&#8217;s necessary for &#8220;God&#8221; to send a message uniquely attributable to &#8220;God&#8221; (i.e a message in a form immune to human counterfeit).</p>
<p>The fact that Mankind has not received a coherent directive message uniquely attributable to a non-human source, much less uniquely attributable to &#8220;God&#8221; is positive evidence that &#8220;God&#8221;, by definition (P1-4), does not exist.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><b>The only first message and commandment that we could logically expect a competent and non-mischeivous god to make is: &#8220;I will never send a messenger, only believe and follow what I tell you directly&#8221;.</b></p>
<p>In a world full of false prophets who with words and writings claim falsely to speak for &#8220;God&#8221;, the idea that &#8220;God&#8221; exists, is capable, but chooses to send commandments through human intermediaries (holy books and prophets) anyway, makes about as much sense as the idea of a treasury department which can print counterfeit-proof money, but chooses to print money that is susceptible to counterfeit anyway; even worse, a treasury that continues to print copies of bills known to have already been counterfeit! If a treasury had the means, we would expect it to exclusively print counterfeit-proof money. To do otherwise would be mischievous and/or stupid.</p>
<p>Essential to the preservation of authority, is the principle that subjects of authority MUST reject commandments not provided in certified form, and as such, a lack of obvious and irrefutable evidence that a directive originates from &#8220;God&#8221; is actually proof positive evidence that the directive could not possibly originate from &#8220;God&#8221;.</p>
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