thanks a lot.

Some interesting points on Snow White retold by a modern illustrator: Snow White was well aware of her own beauty and used it to her own advantage; including her father’s desire for her (which caused the mother jealousy and rage to kill her) when she was only seven. She was depicted to be a beautiful wicked child in nature. Also she knew the disguised witch was her own mother who despised her for growing more beautifully each day. Has anyone read this in the original versions? Thanks

http://books.google.com/books?id=f7ABAAAAQAAJ&printsec=titlepage#PPA225,M1

and a link to many more versions of Beauty and the Beast:

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0425c.html

The Villeneuve’s tale is longer and excruciatingly detailed. Those are the differences I found interesting:

Villeneuve: the merchant has 6 sons and 6 daughters
Beaumont: 3 sons and 3 daughters

Villeneuve: the merchant cuts a bunch of roses. The beast appears (no description) and addresses reproaches to him, laying something looking like an elephant trunk on his collar.
Beaumont: The beast doesn’t touch him and there is no mention of his appendages.

Villeneuve: Beauty arrives with her father to the castle. The Beast eventually shows, announced by the enormous weight of his body, the clicking of his scales and his horrendous screams*.
Beaumont: Just footsteps herald his arrival.

Villeneuve: the Beast sends back the father, telling him never to come back, and tells la Belle to fill 2 coffers with presents for her family. La Belle first chose beautiful outfits, then sees more valuable things, removes the frocks and fills the coffers with golden coins and jewels for her sisters. The father says that he will be able to hide his new treasure from everybody, including the rest of the family.
Beaumont: Beauty and her father fill the coffers with various things.

Villeneuve: first dinner with the Beast. The Beast then asks if she wants to sleep with him. She refuses in a panic.
Beaumont: the Beast asks if she wants to marry him.

Villeneuve: Beauty finds a room featuring a real theater with human actors and spectators. She comes closer, and finds it is a big crystal which reflects a show given from a nearby town (hey, TV!).
Beaumont: Beauty has a magic mirror, where she can see her family.

Villeneuve: Beauty comes back in her family for 2 months. Her father explains how he hid he treasure from her siblings. Then he tells her that next time the Beast asks, she must accepts to sleep with him and try to marry him.
Beaumont: returns for 8 days only, and the father did not hide the treasure.

Villeneuve: The sisters are not yet married, but Beauty brought more treasures and they are able to find husbands.
Beaumont: the sisters are unhappily married, jealous of Beauty, and plot to make her overstay.

Villeneuve: Beauty returns, finds the Beast dying, saves him, and in the evening, accepts to sleep with him. Somehow they instantly become husband and wife.
They sleep (it seems they only do that) in the same bed, and lo and behold, when she wakes up the beautiful young man sleeps beside there.
Then the mother of the young man, who is the queen, arrives in a stag-drawn coach (??), and is mortified to learn that her daughter-in-law is the daughter of a merchant. She is snobbish during many pages, until she learns that la Belle is actually the daughter of the good fairy’s sister.
Beaumont: Beauty accepts to marry the Beast when she finds him dying. Immediate transmogrification. The curse was put (without explaining why) on the prince by a bad fairy. Then the good fairy turns the sisters into statues until they repent.

Villeneuve: in the following tale, the prince explains his predicament. An old fairy wanted to marry him, he refused because she was old and ugly (reminds me something), she cursed him and what happened was the only way to remove the curse.

Then a king arrives, who is the queen’s brother (hence the prince’s uncle), and we learn he is also the father of Beauty. This tale must have come all the way from Pharaohs’ Egypt. I’m sure marriage between first cousins was forbidden when the tale was written.

There is much more in the second tale (over a hundred pages) mainly dealing with boring fairies politics.

Hi! this is the original version of the “Contes de Madame de Villeneuve”, in 5 PDF. The story of La Belle et la Bête starts page 55 of the first part (which is the last PDF in the list).

http://books.google.be/books?q=editions:OCLC63958421&id=6fAFAAAAQAAJ&hl=fr&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=5

I’ve started reading it (I’m French). The spelling is a bit antiquated and the author (or the printer) used the elongated s liberally, which is a bit distracting at first. If you’re fluent in French there should be no problems. If not, you’ll suffer.

I’ll post later the points that differ from the Beaumont’s version if you want.

PS: Andy, I love your site!

First I made a list of the “common” stories that I was sure a lot of readers would be familiar with. Then I researched to find what “original” stories I could find from that list. The Internet, of course, was very helpful. But also see the “References” section at the very end of the article – those books were invaluable.

Andy

In discussing Snow White, you say as an aside that Snow White might not be familiar with normal looking apples, as she eats the “red piece”. In the version I know and love, the queen/witch make up a bunch of poison apples as her third go at killing her young rival. She even makes one so cunning that the poison is only on the rosy red side. I’ve always read that to mean that the apple looks as if it is only partially ripe – the peel is nice and red on one side and greenish still on the other. The flesh of the apple is a nice, healthly-looking white all through. I’ve seen many a normal (i.e. not poison by an evil mother/queen/witch) apple only ripe on one side!

I realize I’m a bit late to the party, but I couldn’t help but comment how interesting your article was. I completely agree with it, too–Disney is practically dumbing down America. Like how in the original ‘The Little Mermaid’, Ariel is killed by Ursula–forget the possibilities of a sequel!

I do have a question, however. Could you tell me which version of ‘Beauty and the Beast’ you are referring to? I know the original was written by Madame Gabrielle-Suzanne Barbot de Villeneuve of France, but the more well-known and abridged version is by Jeanne-Marie Leprince de Beaumont. I really want to read the original, Villeneuve version, so if that is the one you are referring to, I would really appreciate information on how to obtain a copy (or information about the original in a different book.

Thanks!

Andy

I’m just wondering why many of the fairy tales – Beauty and the Beast, Rupunzel, Rumplestilzkin and Sleeping Beauty to name a few – have this idea of the daughter being given away by the parents as a ‘deal’ sometimes at (or before) their birth. Could this be with reference to arranged marriages?? Or perhaps, as with Rupunzel, into a life of religion e.g. a nunnery?

Your thoughts?

Yes, you’ve accurately identified one of the failings of community-driven reference sites. They can indeed be good and bad, possibly requiring the researcher to perform more work for verification.

Your critique, however, is missing one thing: A major advantage such sites have is that they improve over time! For example, I’ve now added a note to the appropriate part of the article above, pointing people to your comment. So future readers will benefit from your information. Now that you’ve helped correct this article, do you still think the reader should “doubt everything on this page”?

Thanks for taking the time to post – your help improves the quality of this site.

Andy

(And regarding Rapunzel’s baby, I’ve read versions of “Rampion” where she bears twins and carries them around with her until she finally runs into the father, who takes her home and marries her. For that matter, I’ve heard of versions where the prince is in fact a king and already married, which is why he never attempts to get her out of the tower…in which case I suppose the witch had /some/ justification.)

Overall, though, this was fine reading! Thanks for getting the word out about the older, grittier tales.

And also, great article. I was blessed to have read nearly all of the original versions of the fairy tales, as such I understand the ridiculousness of the hypersensitivity of modern day society.

Well, actually, a listener did comment on it via email. She liked the way I pronounced “Foe!”. However, she also said that “Your podcast voice sounds kind of like a mix between Alton Brown and Kermit the Frog. …..and I’m not saying this as an insult at all.”

At the risk of making an assumption with zero proof, yes, I’m positive that’s what happened. :)

Actually, I think it has more to do with the parent article. Since that one came first, that’s the article everyone commented on already.