A skeptical analysis of “There are no atheists in foxholes”

2008 November 23

By Navin Kumar
Article ID: 1261

 
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The phrase “there are no atheists in foxholes” has been around for a long time. It’s used with phrases like “there are no atheists in a crashing plane” or “there are no libertarians during a financial crisis”. It’s a way of saying that even those who claim to be very principled forget their principles during an emergency. More narrowly, it’s a way of asserting that atheists do actually believe in God and are simply in denial. This supposes that during times of great stress - like when you’ve just parachuted into Landmine County - religious belief rises to the surface and blasts away all “pretensions”.

What’s the rebuttal to “there are no atheists in foxholes”?

There is no logical rebuttal to this claim. Why? Because it’s not an argument. “There are no atheists in foxholes” is an assertion. It’s like saying “X is equal to 6.78“. It’s either true or it isn’t. But in the interests of being thorough, let’s give the phrase more dignity than it deserves and raise it to the level of a theory. If a person presents such a theory, he is expected to present some kind of empirical data or experiment to back it up. In this case, there is no empirical evidence. A possible experiment could involve recording the religious orientation of outgoing soldiers, and then asking the returning atheists a question like the following:

While in your foxhole, did you ever have a moment when you decided that God exists?

a) Yes.

b) No.

c) I was too busy trying not to get decapitated to think about it.

No one has ever conducted this kind of survey. If someone claims “there are no atheists in foxholes”, the only proper retort to this bigoted sentence is “Yes, there are.”

If it’s such faulty reasoning, why do people claim there are no atheists in foxholes?

Theists believe that atheists live in denial because a theist’s belief in God is based largely on faith, rather than reasoning or empirical evidence. They feel God’s presence, and can’t understand how others don’t. So they conclude that other people do in fact feel him but are lying due to some ulterior motive. Psychologists call this “projection” (although the term may not be technically right: projection deals with unwanted qualities and most theists would reject the idea of theism being unwanted). A selfish person sees everyone else as being selfish. A liar sees dishonesty everywhere. And a religious person cannot believe other people can be so spiritually blind. They assume that everyone is the same as them, despite what others claim. With this understanding, it’s easier to see how so many people can believe an assertion without evidence.

Of course, the atheist-in-foxholes phrase is irrelevant to the question of whether a god exists or not. If there are atheists in foxholes, a theist could argue that it’s just an example of divinely-created free will. On the other hand, simply beliving in something doesn’t make it true.

Do wars convert warriors into believers?

Yes, but not the way theists intend. Anecdotal evidence (which, it should be warned, is unreliable) suggests that battlefield conversions do happen, but in the opposite direction: faced with the horror of war, soldiers start to wonder if a kind, benevolent, all-powerful God would allow something like this to happen. Specifically, “either there is no God, or He’s a bastard”.

Andrew Cline - in his blog “About.com Guide to Atheism since 1998” - received a letter from a US Marine who said: 

“Not that this would be admitted or last after combat is over, but even the marines praying every night when we were in the rear weren’t pleading for god’s help in combat. They were acting just like atheists, ducking and covering, shooting back; trying to save themselves. Never once did I see someone stop and pray for help. They use religion to get them through day to day, but when it hits the fan so to speak, they don’t take chances relying on god.”

And here’s a quote from Kurt Vonnegut’s novel Hocus Pocus:

“The sermon was based on what he claimed was a well-known fact, that there were no atheists in foxholes. I asked Jack what he thought of the sermon afterwards, and he said, ‘There’s a Chaplain who’s never visited the front.’”

So are there atheists in foxholes?

Of course there are. One example is Philip Paulson, who received the Freedom from Religion Foundation’s first “Atheists in Foxholes” award. Paulson, who served in Vietnam, filed suit against the city of San Diego to remove a cross from Mount Soledad, a highly visible, elevated location. He won, but the case was appealed (and is currently in the Supreme Court). During the case, Anne Nicol Gaylor - the president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation - proposed an “Atheists in Foxholes” monument. Such a monument was erected in 1999 at Lake Hypatia, Alabama. Paulson died of cancer in 2006. The monument reads:

The Freedom From Religion Foundation's "Atheists in Foxholes" monument“In memory of ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES and the countless FREETHINKERS who have served this country with honor and distinction.

Presented by the national Freedom From Religion Foundation with hope that in the future humankind may learn to avoid all war.”

The Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was started by Master Sergeant Kathleen Johnson. She is a West Point graduate who claims that atheist soldiers are discriminated against by their officers.

Johnson’s group hasn’t been idle. Letter writing campaigns have been organized against TV news journalists for repeating the “atheists in foxholes” line on TV. These journalists include Katie Couric, Bill Weir, Tom Brokaw, and Bob Schieffer. Bill Wier later retracted his statement. Bob Schieffer later issued a public apology. The Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers even marched on the Mall in Washington DC in 2005, which attracted atheists from different eras. We get this quote about the event from the now-defunct blog “Atheist Mommy” via Andrew Cline:

“…we met a man who saved hundreds of men in WWII. He said, ‘No atheists in foxholes[?], I wasn’t in [just] one, I was in thirty.’ This man is 90 years old and was the oldest atheist I had ever seen and met. There were several foxhole atheists who came up there, told their story and also mentioned that they were either second generation or that their children also were atheists. It gives me hope.”

Most atheists come to their belief by thinking and reasoning. Once you arrive at a conclusion by rigorously testing a theory, will you give it up simply because you’re under a lot of pressure? Unlikely. Religious faith is not required in order to honorably serve your country. We hear this concept in a poem by Alice Shiver, of which the last lines read:

“By air, land, and sea, you answer freedom’s call.

Without god or faith, you seek liberty for all.”



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14 Comments leave one →
2008 November 24
Sandra H permalink

Great article. I especially liked the explanation of projection and religious folks incredulity at atheism. Hopefully some military atheists will chime in with a comment or two.

2008 November 25
TheThomas permalink

I liked the intro. it helped me to understand the phrase “there are no atheists in foxholes”, which I had heard many times before. I had thought it meant that atheist don’t sign up for the army, and therefore are unpatriotic. It’s funny that to a Christian that phrase would be obvious “of course they will ask a god for help at the last moment”, but to me, an atheist, the joke was undecipherable–because how far it is form the truth.

2008 November 26

Same here, Sandy - the psychological aspect of projection isn’t something I’d thought of before. But seeing it presented in this way makes me understand and empathize a little more with those who think differently.

2008 November 28

I chuckled at the cool bit about the simple answer to the assertion “There are no atheists in foxholes.” — “Yes, there are.”

My ex-military friend said something about atheists in foxholes that parallels another thing you said: “It’s where some of them get their start.”

2008 November 30

On NPR this evening they were talking about just this topic. They were talking about it from a media perspective, and how often it is used by reporters and anchors. Even a reporter from NPR said that there are no atheists in foxholes when discussing a particular story regarding a convoy in Iraq. Thankfully, he received a lot of backlash for his comments and he discussed on air that he will never use the phrase again. He had simply never thought about it and how it actually hurts the feelings of atheists everywhere, especially soldiers. To say that there are no atheists in foxholes is really saying that the atheist position is not one that stands up under scrutiny or pressure, which is the farthest thing from the truth. A great example of an atheist that was in a foxhole recently would be Pat Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan.

2008 December 5
Sherrel D Stewart permalink

I would love to see an atheists explain his theorie of Evolution verses the Christian Theory  Of Creation ?
     The Christian theory of Creation presents thousands of logical  and extra-ordinary feats of engeneering in the making of the human Body and all other forms of Life. the design of the enviroment supports Life, so that every element on this earth works in unison to suport the each other. The self healing ability of men, plants and other forms of life on earth, are direct result of creation. The ability of reproduction is just another form of creation within itself.  Do Athiests actually belive that all of this  just happened out of the clear blue, with no one behind the designing of it??? AHHHH  COME ON !!!! Where do they get their resoning?   GOD gave man reasoning, man was the only animal on earth that  he had given reasoning to. I challenge them to give us give us their beliveable explaination with compareable examples.
 
Sherrel D. Stewart
Puyallup, WA.
redpepper76@msn.com

2008 December 5

Sherrel,

You are saying a lot of things, but without any facts to back them up. I am not about to get into a long winded discussion about evolution vs creation if you are going to discuss things in that way, as we will get nowhere with neither of us gaining anything from it.

If you are actually willing to learn and do some reading, there are plenty of materials out there that do a wonderful job of explaining evolution. This is how I went from being an evangelical christian to an atheist in a short amount of time.

First, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1hVx7BsvjU&feature=related
Then, read the Wikipedia article on evolution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
If you want more I would highly recommend Richard Dawkin’s book, “The God Delusion”. It doesn’t discuss just evolution, but it does cover it quite well. If you want a good book on JUST evolution from a scientific standpoint, then go get another one of Dawkin’s books, “The Blind Watchmaker”.

If you have questions about specifics throughout your research feel free to leave a comment here, I’ll read it and respond back : ).

2008 December 5

Also, creationism is NOT a theory.

“Theories are constructed to explain, predict, and master phenomena (e.g., inanimate things, events, or behavior of animals). In many instances we are constructing models of reality. A theory makes generalizations about observations and consists of an interrelated, coherent set of ideas and models.”

Being able to explain and predict something is really what a theory is. Gravity is a theory because we can observe the effects of what happens when we drop an apple from our hand, it goes towards the earth, not away. It is a well respected theory because people all over the world can verify the claims of the theory of gravity by dropping an apple and taking note of the results.

Creationism does not fit the description of a theory because it does not predict anything. Creationism is better described as a belief or an idea, not a theory.

2008 December 9

There was a commentary on NPR this morning from an atheist that served in Afghanistan. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97992274

2008 December 12
Joe Hern permalink

“Psychologists call this “projection” (although the term may not be technically right: projection deals with unwanted qualities and most theists would reject the idea of theism being unwanted).”

Ah, but this ‘unwanted qualities’ definition fits perfectly. I am not being facetious when I propose that the subconscious guilt a theist feels and the denial of earthly pleasures is indeed ‘unwanted’ while they tell themselves they are ‘happy’ to give up the pleasures of the flesh. That is completely absurd… they are not ‘happy’ to be denying themselves the earthly pleasures non-theists enjoy. Of coruse, however, if you press a theists about the issue, they will swear they are ‘happy’ to give up the pleasures. This would be easy for them to conceal if it were not for their ‘projection’ of their unwanted feelings onto the non-theist. They wish to project the unwanted feelings of guilt and unwanted self denial onto the atheist.

As for my own experience, I was upside down in an overturned vehicle still traveling 60MPH on it’s roof, glass imploding, screaming of others in the vehicle, and burnt tar spraying my face completely aware I was about to die, and all I thought about was “I hope [my death is] quick” as in imaging slamming into an oncoming truck or barrier. Indeed, I am certain that there are ‘atheists in foxholes’ if I was one. Besides, it doesn’t take a psychologist to figure out that the very worst time to make a well thought out decision is during emotional turmoil. But isn’t it interesting that the most often occurrence when theisms attacks the gullible is during emotional turmoil?

2008 December 29
Paul permalink

I’ve always thought the “no athiests in foxholes” assertion just showed how when some people are put in highly stressful situations, they will sometimes exhibit irrational behaviour.

2008 December 29

hmm, I’ve never seen it that way Paul. I was a raised as a evangelical christian, and was so until just a year or two ago, and when I was a christian I saw that statement as saying, “Those so called atheists will become christians as soon as they see that might die”

Perhaps you were raised in a completely different environment and see it in an entirely different way?

2009 January 5
Andy permalink

“’There are no atheists in foxholes’ isn’t an argument against atheism, it’s an argument against foxholes” - James Morrow

2009 January 5

As an unwavering and unrepentant atheist, I have been met with this statement on many occasions and thought about it in the past in a very similar way to Navin Kumar. (I politely excuse myself when faced with it today). I also have been asked “Who is your Pope? followed by one of the minions of the 3rd Reich).

These queries are simply lazy and trite. When confronted by them I realize that I am not talking to a person who has come up with the question on their own; I am not talking to a person who thinks for themself.

I have jokingly told people that I was saved from a bullet while in the jungles of Viet Nam by the copy of Origin of the Species that I always kep in my breast pocket. Occasionally people believed me.

Anyway, good article.

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