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	<title>Comments on: Christmas traditions revealed</title>
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	<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/</link>
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		<title>By: Hazzel</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1276</link>
		<dc:creator>Hazzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1276</guid>
		<description>Ah, alright. I know you didn&#039;t, sorry, just couldn&#039;t find the connection without that presumtion until now. Thnxs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, alright. I know you didn&#8217;t, sorry, just couldn&#8217;t find the connection without that presumtion until now. Thnxs.</p>
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		<title>By: Hellbound Alleee</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1275</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellbound Alleee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1275</guid>
		<description>I got it from the articles sited.

I didn&#039;t say thor was German.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got it from the articles sited.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say thor was German.</p>
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		<title>By: Hazzel</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1273</link>
		<dc:creator>Hazzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1273</guid>
		<description>@Hellbound Alleee - Where did you get &quot; (Donner and Blitzen) &quot; from? 
That&#039;s german for Thunder and Lightning, sure...but there is no way those are the original names for the goats. Thor was not german...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Hellbound Alleee &#8211; Where did you get &#8221; (Donner and Blitzen) &#8221; from?<br />
That&#8217;s german for Thunder and Lightning, sure&#8230;but there is no way those are the original names for the goats. Thor was not german&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hellbound Alleee</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellbound Alleee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure you are aware that the legends you are telling about St. Nicholas are just as mythological as the legend of Santa Claus. 

I would encourage a search of &quot;Santa Claus&quot; and &quot;Thor,&quot; since it shows a very interesting link between characters of what we call &quot;paganism&quot; and the Santa Claus/St Nicholas figure. Thor, the God of Thunder and Lightening ( Donner and Blitzen) and Thor, the God who drove a sleigh drawn by two goats, Cracker and Gnasher. Many of these characters, Thor, Odin, the German mountain man, are mythologies outside of Christianity.

I did a search of Krampus (who is every bit as interesting and more than St Nick) and the Germans/Austrians who run sites such as krampus.com agree that the origin of Santa belongs to the hearth-god (chimneys) Thor.

A search I did of St Nicholas himself led to arguments that the stories of St Nicholas correspond so well to the God Poseidon, that most of what we &quot;know&quot; about the saint is wrong. I would hardly want to suggest that any relic is the genuine article, and neither would I legends about St Nick himself, several which have been utterly debunked. 

One great book to read would be &quot;The Battle for Christmas,&quot; which outlines the history of Christmas in America. It does not always go in great detail about mythological origins, but does shed light on what the heck Americans are doing with such pagan traditions.

I&#039;d like to recommend the wiki on Santa Claus.  Pretty good stuff. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_claus

A really well-documented article (among several articles about Christmas traditions) comes from the massive site Religious Tolerance.org, which always lists its sources:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa1.htm

An interesting quote from that article:

&quot;Some religious historians and experts in folklore believe that there is no valid evidence to indicate that St. Nicholas ever existed as a human. In fact, there are quite a few indicators that his life story was simply recycled from those of Pagan gods. Many other ancient Pagan gods and goddesses were similarly Christianized in the early centuries of the Church. His legends seems to have been mainly created out of myths attributed to the Greek God Poseidon, the Roman God Neptune, and the Teutonic God Hold Nickar.  &quot;In the popular imagination [of many Russians] he became the heir of Mikoula, the god of harvest, &#039;who will replace God, when God becomes too old.&#039; &quot; 8&quot;

Anyway, I can&#039;t say I&#039;m an expert, but I&#039;ve been fascinated by this subject for many years (about 30). I&#039;ve read quite a bit on the subject, and every damned year I learn something new about Christmas origins that I just hadn&#039;t come across before. Goes to show that our knowledge on some subjects represents a certain-sized window that may continue to open--for instance, I learned about Krampus only two years ago--if anything is interesting about Christmas, it&#039;s this. It&#039;s both pagan and very, very Christian--which, it seems, is just as &quot;pagan&quot; a religion as any other. Wonders never cease!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you are aware that the legends you are telling about St. Nicholas are just as mythological as the legend of Santa Claus. </p>
<p>I would encourage a search of &#8220;Santa Claus&#8221; and &#8220;Thor,&#8221; since it shows a very interesting link between characters of what we call &#8220;paganism&#8221; and the Santa Claus/St Nicholas figure. Thor, the God of Thunder and Lightening ( Donner and Blitzen) and Thor, the God who drove a sleigh drawn by two goats, Cracker and Gnasher. Many of these characters, Thor, Odin, the German mountain man, are mythologies outside of Christianity.</p>
<p>I did a search of Krampus (who is every bit as interesting and more than St Nick) and the Germans/Austrians who run sites such as krampus.com agree that the origin of Santa belongs to the hearth-god (chimneys) Thor.</p>
<p>A search I did of St Nicholas himself led to arguments that the stories of St Nicholas correspond so well to the God Poseidon, that most of what we &#8220;know&#8221; about the saint is wrong. I would hardly want to suggest that any relic is the genuine article, and neither would I legends about St Nick himself, several which have been utterly debunked. </p>
<p>One great book to read would be &#8220;The Battle for Christmas,&#8221; which outlines the history of Christmas in America. It does not always go in great detail about mythological origins, but does shed light on what the heck Americans are doing with such pagan traditions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to recommend the wiki on Santa Claus.  Pretty good stuff.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_claus" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_claus</a></p>
<p>A really well-documented article (among several articles about Christmas traditions) comes from the massive site Religious Tolerance.org, which always lists its sources:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa1.htm</a></p>
<p>An interesting quote from that article:</p>
<p>&#8220;Some religious historians and experts in folklore believe that there is no valid evidence to indicate that St. Nicholas ever existed as a human. In fact, there are quite a few indicators that his life story was simply recycled from those of Pagan gods. Many other ancient Pagan gods and goddesses were similarly Christianized in the early centuries of the Church. His legends seems to have been mainly created out of myths attributed to the Greek God Poseidon, the Roman God Neptune, and the Teutonic God Hold Nickar.  &#8220;In the popular imagination [of many Russians] he became the heir of Mikoula, the god of harvest, &#8216;who will replace God, when God becomes too old.&#8217; &#8221; 8&#8243;</p>
<p>Anyway, I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m an expert, but I&#8217;ve been fascinated by this subject for many years (about 30). I&#8217;ve read quite a bit on the subject, and every damned year I learn something new about Christmas origins that I just hadn&#8217;t come across before. Goes to show that our knowledge on some subjects represents a certain-sized window that may continue to open&#8211;for instance, I learned about Krampus only two years ago&#8211;if anything is interesting about Christmas, it&#8217;s this. It&#8217;s both pagan and very, very Christian&#8211;which, it seems, is just as &#8220;pagan&#8221; a religion as any other. Wonders never cease!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: starlak</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1260</link>
		<dc:creator>starlak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1260</guid>
		<description>How about the giving of gifts to each other? Was that always a regular tradition? Or a commercial/economic creation by Sears &amp; Roebuck??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the giving of gifts to each other? Was that always a regular tradition? Or a commercial/economic creation by Sears &amp; Roebuck??</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hazzel</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1201</link>
		<dc:creator>Hazzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1201</guid>
		<description>I recently watched the educational channel (Swedish SVT1 -UR) and learned this: It&#039;s said (by whom they did not say...) that the christmas tree apart from what you wrote was decorated with really sugary balls of...sugar, so that the poor Germans could get a snack now and then during the whole winter. Strange in my opinion - why not store the sugar in a...box of some kind? Anyway, great article!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently watched the educational channel (Swedish SVT1 -UR) and learned this: It&#8217;s said (by whom they did not say&#8230;) that the christmas tree apart from what you wrote was decorated with really sugary balls of&#8230;sugar, so that the poor Germans could get a snack now and then during the whole winter. Strange in my opinion &#8211; why not store the sugar in a&#8230;box of some kind? Anyway, great article!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Steenwyk</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/12/15/christmas-traditions-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-1199</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Steenwyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=519#comment-1199</guid>
		<description>&quot;Though every time I’ve checked my stocking, I’ve never found a bag of money. Maybe I should see what happens if I prostitute myself just before the holidays.&quot;

I&#039;m sure you&#039;d get something, but probably in a different way then what you want : ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Though every time I’ve checked my stocking, I’ve never found a bag of money. Maybe I should see what happens if I prostitute myself just before the holidays.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;d get something, but probably in a different way then what you want : ).</p>
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