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	<title>Comments on: Facilitated communication and Rom Houben</title>
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	<description>Skepticism. Critical thinking. Podcast. Community.</description>
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		<title>By: Andy Kaiser</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2009/12/06/facilitated-communication-and-rom-houben/comment-page-1/#comment-5562</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Kaiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=1683#comment-5562</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi James,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt; You claim FC advocates are ‘heartless’, how so?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;Read the full article, please, before making assumptions. Here&#039;s the entire sentence:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&quot;While it is possible that Houben’s facilitator is willfully perpetrating a heartless con, it is more likely in this case, and in all uses of facilitated communication, that the facilitator’s actions are attributable to &lt;a style=&quot;text-decoration: none; color: #772124; font-weight: bold;&quot; href=&quot;http://www.dbskeptic.com/2009/06/12/the-ideomotor-effect/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the ideomotor effect&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;That was not an insult by calling your loved ones heartless, but the author&#039;s belief that FC results are misinterpreting a widely-known behavior.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;line-height: 22px;&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&gt;But it’s so sad that you people can’t be bothered to make the effort
&gt;to do the full and proper research – to meet the users themselves and gain 
&gt;some first hand experience.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;line-height: 22px;&quot;&gt;So if &lt;em&gt;you &lt;/em&gt;make a claim, it&#039;s up to &lt;em&gt;me &lt;/em&gt;to disprove it? That&#039;s not the way science works. It&#039;s up to the claimant to prove their claim, to give others enough information to replicate, to exclude the possibility of misinterpretation or error. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;line-height: 22px;&quot;&gt;We can&#039;t assume every unprovable claim is the truth, or we&#039;ll get abused. We need a way of measuring and testing claims to find which are justified and which can be dismissed. That&#039;s why we have the scientific method.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&gt;Actually, you are the ‘hearless’ ones, you have no real experience
&gt; or understanding of a person who can’t speak, and condemn what you can’t understand.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;How are we acting heartless to those with such a terrible condition? The article says that it&#039;s a tragedy from every perspective. Sad, yes, but the article is the opposite of heartless. The last two paragraphs say it best.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&gt;you’re primary interest is in being a ‘clever skeptic’, but not in genuine learning.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;Do you *really* believe that? If so, we should stop talking now and while I thank you for your opinion, we can agree to disagree.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;To respond to you using the same tactic, I could say that &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; primary interest is to insult and belittle anyone who criticizes your belief. But I&#039;d be wrong! You took the time to come here and share your thoughts, but please understand that  (speaking for myself) a skeptic is truly trying to understand the world and is open to new ideas. Skeptics demand a scientific methodology when dealing with &lt;em&gt;any &lt;/em&gt;claim - supernatural or not. Those claims presented as fact without even basic testing get highlighted in articles like this. And they should.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;So, in the interest of genuine learning: If your son has done any double-blinded testing of his FC ability, I&#039;d love to see the results, if you&#039;re comfortable having them analyzed.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Georgia, &#039;Times New Roman&#039;, Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;&quot;&gt;Andy&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi James,</p>
<p><em>&gt;</em><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;"><em> You claim FC advocates are ‘heartless’, how so?</em></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">Read the full article, please, before making assumptions. Here&#8217;s the entire sentence:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">&#8220;While it is possible that Houben’s facilitator is willfully perpetrating a heartless con, it is more likely in this case, and in all uses of facilitated communication, that the facilitator’s actions are attributable to <a style="text-decoration: none; color: #772124; font-weight: bold;" href="http://www.dbskeptic.com/2009/06/12/the-ideomotor-effect/" rel="nofollow">the ideomotor effect</a>.&#8221;</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">That was not an insult by calling your loved ones heartless, but the author&#8217;s belief that FC results are misinterpreting a widely-known behavior.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; color: #333333;"><span style="line-height: 22px;"><em>&gt;But it’s so sad that you people can’t be bothered to make the effort<br />
&gt;to do the full and proper research – to meet the users themselves and gain<br />
&gt;some first hand experience.</em></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; color: #333333;"><span style="line-height: 22px;">So if <em>you </em>make a claim, it&#8217;s up to <em>me </em>to disprove it? That&#8217;s not the way science works. It&#8217;s up to the claimant to prove their claim, to give others enough information to replicate, to exclude the possibility of misinterpretation or error. </span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; color: #333333;"><span style="line-height: 22px;">We can&#8217;t assume every unprovable claim is the truth, or we&#8217;ll get abused. We need a way of measuring and testing claims to find which are justified and which can be dismissed. That&#8217;s why we have the scientific method.</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;"><em>&gt;Actually, you are the ‘hearless’ ones, you have no real experience<br />
&gt; or understanding of a person who can’t speak, and condemn what you can’t understand.</em></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">How are we acting heartless to those with such a terrible condition? The article says that it&#8217;s a tragedy from every perspective. Sad, yes, but the article is the opposite of heartless. The last two paragraphs say it best.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;"><em>&gt;you’re primary interest is in being a ‘clever skeptic’, but not in genuine learning.</em></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">Do you *really* believe that? If so, we should stop talking now and while I thank you for your opinion, we can agree to disagree.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">To respond to you using the same tactic, I could say that <em>your</em> primary interest is to insult and belittle anyone who criticizes your belief. But I&#8217;d be wrong! You took the time to come here and share your thoughts, but please understand that  (speaking for myself) a skeptic is truly trying to understand the world and is open to new ideas. Skeptics demand a scientific methodology when dealing with <em>any </em>claim &#8211; supernatural or not. Those claims presented as fact without even basic testing get highlighted in articles like this. And they should.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">So, in the interest of genuine learning: If your son has done any double-blinded testing of his FC ability, I&#8217;d love to see the results, if you&#8217;re comfortable having them analyzed.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22px; color: #333333;">Andy</span></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.dbskeptic.com/2009/12/06/facilitated-communication-and-rom-houben/comment-page-1/#comment-5561</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbskeptic.com/?p=1683#comment-5561</guid>
		<description>To you skeptics of Facilitation Communication,
if you could be bothered to spend a few minutes of your valuable time with an FC user, such as my son, you would quickly come to understand about FC.  But it&#039;s so sad that you people can&#039;t be bothered to make the effort to do the full and proper research - to meet the users themselves and gain some first hand experience.  You claim FC advocates are &#039;heartless&#039;, how so?  Actually, you are the &#039;hearless&#039; ones, you have no real experience or understanding of a person who can&#039;t speak, and condemn what you can&#039;t understand.  It doesn&#039;t surprise me that most FC users or advocates can&#039;t be bothered trying to educate you people, because you&#039;re primary interest is in being a &#039;clever skeptic&#039;, but not in genuine learning.
James
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To you skeptics of Facilitation Communication,<br />
if you could be bothered to spend a few minutes of your valuable time with an FC user, such as my son, you would quickly come to understand about FC.  But it&#8217;s so sad that you people can&#8217;t be bothered to make the effort to do the full and proper research &#8211; to meet the users themselves and gain some first hand experience.  You claim FC advocates are &#8216;heartless&#8217;, how so?  Actually, you are the &#8216;hearless&#8217; ones, you have no real experience or understanding of a person who can&#8217;t speak, and condemn what you can&#8217;t understand.  It doesn&#8217;t surprise me that most FC users or advocates can&#8217;t be bothered trying to educate you people, because you&#8217;re primary interest is in being a &#8216;clever skeptic&#8217;, but not in genuine learning.<br />
James<br />
 </p>
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